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Just a few things.... - 2005/03/22 21:36Man, this plug is great! I haven't gotten it to perform quite the way I want yet, but its just a matter of time.
I have a few issues due to my current setup.
I am using both a Handsonic and a Novation ReMOTE25 for triggering, and the Handsonic is giving me some difficulties (active sensing and such).
I really want two things that this software doesn't have yet, and if there is anyway I can get them without having to run a seperate Max/MSP patch to correct it, it would be great:
Primarily, for what I am doing, I would prefer to use Live's MIDI mapping, but this can't be done comfortably with the current toggle implementation and the alternate control - is there anyway you can hook us users up with a seperate control that, say, does the same thing as the Alternate switch but that is "Live 4 MIDI control friendly" (I'm guessing you know what I mean after reading the included docs).
Secondarily, it would be great to be able to edit the MIDI mapping assignments by hand (due to the way the Handsonic handles MIDI, and its been a problem using a Roland MIDI Guitar interface, also). I don't need an editor, per se, but if you could tell my or direct me to the info on how the preference file is built, I could probably just do it with a text or resource editor - I don't imagine I'll be changing it a lot once I get things working.
I'll be giving it a workout for the next week or so, and if there's anything I can do to help out, I'd love to see this thing rocket to the moon for you - its truely a very powerfull piece of software.
What did you write this with? I am asuming its something like Max (I hit control/option/command/click and got an edit dialog - I don't know if thats defeatable, but if it is you might want to fix it)
A million thanks again, for all the hard work I'm sure went into this.
Re:Just a few things.... - 2005/03/23 13:14I thinik I might have gotten a handle on the whole "alternate" thing last night...maybe I just don't understand how its SUPPOSED to work.
My issue is that I don't want to have to route a track to the MIDI input of MUSO Audio track and keep it record enabled all the time - I wish to use Live's controller routing system - I think that the record on/off setting is going to do what I want it to, but it wasn't working for me at first.
My big thing is the MIDI mapping - there needs to be some kind of visual indication for this, otherwise you don't know for sure what you are erasing.
Also, it would be a much more powerfull tool if there were more options for timing (odd sig's and whatnot). I'm sure that is a little ways off, though.
I spent about four hours last night and have gotten most of my setup mapped the way I think I will use it, so when I've had some more time with it I'll get back to you. Thanks for the response.
Exactly what was the problem you were having with Live's remote setup that prompted the alternate feature?
Re:Just a few things.... - 2005/03/23 16:01amounra wrote: "I thinik I might have gotten a handle on the whole "alternate" thing last night...maybe I just don't understand how its SUPPOSED to work."
basically, musolomo was setup for use with a midi keyboard/etc. With the autolooper, you either want to press and hold to record, or you want to press once to start recording, and once again to stop. "My issue is that I don't want to have to route a track to the MIDI input of MUSO Audio track and keep it record enabled all the time - I wish to use Live's controller routing system - I think that the record on/off setting is going to do what I want it to, but it wasn't working for me at first."
you can just turn monitoring on for that channel if you like, and then delete all the blank clips in that track by pressing Apple+E in live when a clip slot is selected
We're working on making mapping more visible.
Also, it would be a much more powerfull tool if there were more options for timing (odd sig's and whatnot). I'm sure that is a little ways off, though.
yes, thats on it's way. I do a lot of work in changing time sigs. What sort of thing did you need?
It's easy to make stuff work in 4/4. fiddling with 7/8 can be tricky.
"I spent about four hours last night and have gotten most of my setup mapped the way I think I will use it, so when I've had some more time with it I'll get back to you. Thanks for the response."
happy to help
"Exactly what was the problem you were having with Live's remote setup that prompted the alternate feature?"
bit long to explain, but I couldn't make midi data treat recording like a toggle switch.
Re:Just a few things.... - 2005/03/23 21:01I spent several more hours tonight working with Musolomo, and its working better for me now. My setup is kinda funky, so that might give you an idea of where I'm coming from:
ReMOTE25 (mainly for control of Live/Reason, although I have it set up for triggering Muso also with the same data as
Handsonic (5 pads set up for control of Muso along with a sustain pedal to trigger autoloop alternation, the rest is set up to trigger software stuff or internal sounds depending on my mood)
Firewire 410 (Input 1 is Mic for Tablas, Input 2 for Handsonic internal sounds, Midi I/O connected to Handsonic)
Because of the multiple controller's, I don't like to have more than one track armed at a time (that being the one I'm actually capturing clips on) because each controller is used for multiple things, sometimes both at once for the same plug or voice. That's why I'm trying to stick to Live's internal mapping scheme, it greatly simplifies things. It's mostly working, although even after tweaking my Handsonic all night its still kind of hit or miss whether it properly triggers the autolooper correctly. I've got my gates set to 1.0 secs and I'm still getting some double triggering at times, and others it simply doesn't trigger at all. I think this is an issue with the HPD-15, though, as it doesn't seem to happen with the RM25.
I am able to fire the alternate button WITH Live's internal mapping now, but only with the sustain hooked up to the HH input on my HPD-15. I'm going to funk with the RM25 and MIDIMonitor tomorrow to see whats going on there, and probably I can get something happening with it also.
Yeah, Live's kind of wierd about non-standard timings also, but I'm just starting to work with it all the time, so I'm sure there are revelations ahead. I'd like to be able to assign a signature length and have it loop to that, and I might be able to do it now for all I know. I haven't gotten that far with it, I'm still having inconsistencies in triggering autolooper. Once I get that working I want to get proficient with the key assignments, but its hard to hold keys while playing the tabla with two hands. It would be great to easily assign a tempo of 5/7/11 and have it track to changed tempos and be aware of where the break points hit for triggering.
I need to have a toggle feature for assigning keys to the samples so that I can hit the key once on the Handsonic to assign it, record a pass, then hit that key (or record) to toggle recording off for that note when the pass is done. It would be great if there was an autoplay feature for this as well so that when you exit record mode it went straight into play mode on that paticular sample like live does if you hit play on a clip to stop a recording. That, and the ability to see key assignments (in brief form, just like a keyboard with lighted keys for those keys that have assignments already) are the main things I find myself wanting.
Oh, and a smaller GUI. This is maybe the BIGGEST drawback to this plug. It must be open in order to see memory usage (and to reliably decipher the other controls, due to Lives toggle problem). On a twelve inch Book, the plug takes up too much space, or at least is an awkward size. A bummer, too, as its a sweet looking GUI.
That was painful to relate, as I like this plug SOOOOO much. These are not criticisms, just things that would make it better. I've been really surprised at how well this puppy performs.
I've had some glitches here and there, but I think they are memory issues (and I'm running an iBook 1.2G with the latency pretty low on the FW410 for all the stuff I'm doing right now, so that's probably the main issue for me). I was really impressed when I changed tempos on Live and the Muso plug followed me, although I couldn't use it in a performance as the transition gets really clicky and kind of breaks things down. But when the change is done, its locks right up again. I guess I will just have to fade the live track in and out.
Another thing I notice, when a standard 128 step controller is mapped to the controls (e.g. time or pitch), there is no way to rezero it with the controller after it has been modified. This makes it unusable in a perfomance situation without actually typing in the value and hitting enter. Is this just me?
Again, thanks for whatever part you had in this, and the info and attention you've given me. This thing rocks!
Re:Just a few things.... - 2005/03/24 01:10amounra wrote: I spent several more hours tonight working with Musolomo, and its working better for me now. My setup is kinda funky, so that might give you an idea of where I'm coming from:
ReMOTE25 (mainly for control of Live/Reason, although I have it set up for triggering Muso also with the same data as
all three of the musolomo team have novation25s. We use and reccomend them for musolomo.
Handsonic (5 pads set up for control of Muso along with a sustain pedal to trigger autoloop alternation, the rest is set up to trigger software stuff or internal sounds depending on my mood)
Firewire 410 (Input 1 is Mic for Tablas, Input 2 for Handsonic internal sounds, Midi I/O connected to Handsonic)
oooo handsonic...nice... the majority of the musolomo team has decided that you MUST provide some mp3 samples
Because of the multiple controller's, I don't like to have more than one track armed at a time (that being the one I'm actually capturing clips on) because each controller is used for multiple things, sometimes both at once for the same plug or voice. That's why I'm trying to stick to Live's internal mapping scheme, it greatly simplifies things.
I understand. We'll work to make sure it complies as best as possible.
It's mostly working, although even after tweaking my Handsonic all night its still kind of hit or miss whether it properly triggers the autolooper correctly. I've got my gates set to 1.0 secs and I'm still getting some double triggering at times, and others it simply doesn't trigger at all. I think this is an issue with the HPD-15, though, as it doesn't seem to happen with the RM25.
Let us know if we can help, perhaps we can add a 'minimum time between triggers or something'
I am able to fire the alternate button WITH Live's internal mapping now, but only with the sustain hooked up to the HH input on my HPD-15. I'm going to funk with the RM25 and MIDIMonitor tomorrow to see whats going on there, and probably I can get something happening with it also.
Yeah, Live's kind of wierd about non-standard timings also, but I'm just starting to work with it all the time, so I'm sure there are revelations ahead.
I'd like to be able to assign a signature length and have it loop to that, and I might be able to do it now for all I know. I haven't gotten that far with it, I'm still having inconsistencies in triggering autolooper. Once I get that working I want to get proficient with the key assignments, but its hard to hold keys while playing the tabla with two hands. It would be great to easily assign a tempo of 5/7/11 and have it track to changed tempos and be aware of where the break points hit for triggering.
sounds like the real deal. you definantly need to provide mp3 samples
the only way to do that currently is to make a big bar of 5+7+11
as you may know, sequencers on the whole suck at this stuff. We'll see what we can do. As i said, i do a lot of work in changing time sigs, and Live is sub-optimal with that.
perhaps we may make live just count quavers in the end, and musolomo can accept time signature info, OR you could put in a big composite bar in Live, and tell musolomo how you want it subdivided.
I need to have a toggle feature for assigning keys to the samples so that I can hit the key once on the Handsonic to assign it, record a pass, then hit that key (or record) to toggle recording off for that note when the pass is done. It would be great if there was an autoplay feature for this as well so that when you exit record mode it went straight into play mode on that paticular sample like live does if you hit play on a clip to stop a recording. That, and the ability to see key assignments (in brief form, just like a keyboard with lighted keys for those keys that have assignments already) are the main things I find myself wanting.
yes, we are working on the lighted key example. Actually in terms of hardware, I'm considering those CASIO teach-yourself type keyboards with a LED beneath each key, very cool and very cheap.
In terms of the record mode, how would you want it?
because then, you could only trigger loops that existed already. (otherwise you would commence recording on a fresh key)
possible, we'll look at it.
Oh, and a smaller GUI. This is maybe the BIGGEST drawback to this plug. It must be open in order to see memory usage
well, actually you can tell memory usage by audio feedback. there is a feature which gives you white noise when you are approaching maximum. have a look at the other 2 outputs coming from musolomo :-D
(and to reliably decipher the other controls, due to Lives toggle problem). On a twelve inch Book, the plug takes up too much space, or at least is an awkward size. A bummer, too, as its a sweet looking GUI. I've consulted out graphics section, and the answer is No. you have to buy a powerbook.
That was painful to relate, as I like this plug SOOOOO much. These are not criticisms, just things that would make it better. I've been really surprised at how well this puppy performs.
I've had some glitches here and there, but I think they are memory issues (and I'm running an iBook 1.2G with the latency pretty low on the FW410 for all the stuff I'm doing right now, so that's probably the main issue for me). I was really impressed when I changed tempos on Live and the Muso plug followed me, although I couldn't use it in a performance as the transition gets really clicky and kind of breaks things down. But when the change is done, its locks right up again. I guess I will just have to fade the live track in and out.
musolomo needs 50mb of RAM, so make sure plenty is free. Also (mostly due to the freeze thing) musolomo always takes up a bit of CPU. we've made it as effecient as possible, after all, I only have a 667mhz machine. (sponsors, anyone! )
the tempo-change thing is a little diffucult to smooth, we're working on it.
Airy is the real genius here for all that. The time stretching stuff comes from his Speedster plugin. Airy Rox.
Another thing I notice, when a standard 128 step controller is mapped to the controls (e.g. time or pitch), there is no way to rezero it with the controller after it has been modified. This makes it unusable in a perfomance situation without actually typing in the value and hitting enter. Is this just me?
make sure you have the latest version. download it again. there was a bug. Also, we have a cool and simple solution for problems related to variable resetting and also variables defaults. You'll see. it's VERY VERY easy and cool.
Again, thanks for whatever part you had in this, and the info and attention you've given me. This thing rocks!
Airy coded it, and took it to a whole new level with time-stretching and a zillion other things. atariboy.com made the wonderful GUI you see, and came up with some key concepts.
musolomo was built for the exact things you are using it for. Do try the digiskip technology too, it's really very powerful for performance.
